The quote below is how sportsmanship was defined on a regional forum by an avid tourney player, quote:
"Sportsmanship is about sucking up and telling your opponent you like their paint job, asking them about the tournament so far, yucking it up over your own bad dice and talking about lunch."
Several comments above said statement was the following army list:
Draigo
1 Venerable Dreadnought with 2 TL autocannons and psybolt ammo
1 Venerable Dreadnought with 2 TL autocannons and psybolt ammo
1 Venerable Dreadnought with 2 TL autocannons and psybolt ammo
1 Paladin with MC NFS
1 Paladin with NFS
1 Stormraven with TL plasmacannon, TL Multi-melta, Searchlight
1 Stormraven with TL plasmacannon, TL Multi-melta, Searchlight
1 Stormraven with TL plasmacannon, TL Multi-melta, Searchlight
1 Dreadnought with 2 TL autocannons and psybolt ammo
1 Dreadnought with 2 TL autocannons and psybolt ammo
Note the list totals out to an odd number as that's part of the tourney's theme and that's about the only part of the above that acknowledges theme.
On top of that, the person who made the statement & list above is himself a tournament organizer who in the past has said that he hoped everyone will come out and 'have a good time' at his tourneys. I guess that concept doesn't apply to other people's tourneys.
With this kind of attitude, it should be no wonder as to why I avoid tourneys like the plague these days.
Primaris Deathwatch Desolators - Done!
11 minutes ago
8 comments:
saw that post...felt like head butting the computer out of rage...
Murl
I deleted the bookmark on my computer here @ work. I just need to get Bullet's RL email address & then I think I'll just delete the bookmark at home as well. The Chattanooga crowd seems to have taken over and now their lists (and attitude) are worse than the forum trolls on Warseer & BoLS...
Kinda sad.
You can have my email address. I'm on you side of this all.
I guess I just don't understand this point of view. What does his list have to do with his sportsmanship?
Or are you equating sportsmanship to how much fun your opponent has? If so, how can you possibly expect to know, in advance, what every opponent you play will enjoy? If the opponent has bad luck with the dice and doesn't enjoy the game, is that also your fault? At what point is the line drawn?
Would I look forward to playing the above list? No, probably not; it's kinda gimmicky and one-dimensional. But it's not actually very powerful in either the mispercieved "spam = best" way or the actual "good list" way.
In a tournament, I don't think your opponent is obligated to change his list to reflect what you might like. Everyone enjoys different things, so there's little use in trying to write a list to please others. If a player is friendly, conversational, and good-natured, how is that not enough to receive a good sportsmanship score? I'm not trying to accuse you of anything untoward, but I really must puzzle at what your expectations of other people are.
I can understand not being interested in competitive play; I can understand wanting to play a more "beer and pretzels" or hobby-centric version of the game. But I don't understand you condemnation of of his list as "unsporting" or saying that he doesn't want people to have a good time at his tournaments as a result of it. I don't know the gentleman in question, but to draw all those conclusions from his army list alone seems... awfully harsh.
Lack of sportsmanship is why 40K is uninteresting to more and more people. Seriously pushing little painted men around on a table with other mostly male adults is pretty sad and pathetic if the only point is to ... what ... win the game? The wildly unbalanced, checkers simple, game? Deriving satisfaction from winning alone has totally killed off 40K in my area. Granted I live out in the less populated portion of the Western US, presently Ogden, Utah area and before that Las Vegas. In both of these gaming communities though there has been a change, the stable working professional types who were fun to hang out with and play a game with and/or drink some beers with after the game have all mostly gone. Now its more of the store troll set, more the guys one would expect to see playing hardcore Magic or something. More and more of the working professional types have abandoned competitive 40K as it just isn't interesting because of stuff like this. I feel your pain, honestly to such an extent that over the past 2 years I've sold off about $10,000.00 worth of 40K stuff ... the bulk of a collection it had taken me a decade to amass and converted more and more of it into things I can just do with a friend or two. Spartan Games stuff, historicals, etc. 40K, Warhammer and Warmachine all still present wonderful armies and wonderful games, but finding people who are more concerned about having a fun social activity centered around converting, painting and the cool backstory of the 40K universe has become a pipe dream in my area. So sadly I've largely given up on ever enjoying the game again. I'll never sell all my stuff because someday I'll break it out with my kids (who are all too young to play really right now) and revisit the wonderful game. 4 large armies will remain ... one for each to play. Someday I'll have some family campaigns ... but I think that is the only 40K I'll probably ever play again. Due to the death of true sportsmanship and the mass die off of gentlemen and women in the hobby. Sad days :(
@ Abuse Puppy: Oh there's more than one list to judge from, i just left out where to find them so as not to 'name names' (the two of us disagree enough online as it is).
Yes the list is one dimensional & will either spectacularly win or fail, however the concept behind it's design is totally outside the flavor of the game (yes I'm well within the FAAC camp, whereas the builder of the list is my polar opposite). My biggest gripe (and the point really) is his definition of Sportsmanship. He himself is a T.O., so I can't imagine what a tourney with that attitude @ the helm would run like.
Most likely the addition of the list was an unnecessary distraction. However when I'm in nerd rage/rant mode my train of thought has usually gone well off of its rails...
@Lord of Excess: Our little gaming group is rather isolated as its in a rural community as well. The forum was a way to get the disparate gaming groups within the state together & worked quite well for a time.
However my gaming group has largely abandoned it as we're generally the beer & pretzels sort whereas quite a few others are pure tourney types. To each their own, but to get shot down enmass whenever you disagree with the sentiments like those in this post, and you really gotta start wondering why we even try to communicate, much less want to play this game.
My collection, while still vast (IMO) is really a pale shadow of what it once was (about a third of what I now have is terrain), with much having gone the way of ebay. I even tried the OP GK nonsense, wasn't any fun at all for me really.
I dunno, its just very disheartening to see the 'Game' (key word there) clinically dissected for points efficiency, while a concept like 'sportsmanship is trampled underfoot as its in the way of victory.
I left a huge comment about what I felt would beat the list and the only response so far is "I don't think you have played grey knights" . The big problem I have is that I played the guy who said this and remember him doing stuff like this when I played. I thought he was nice. I feel dirty now that I know he was just kissing my ass. I genuilly thought he liked my paint job because I had finished it early in the year and it was my first one( kinda). Even if he was being honest , I can't help but feel stupid. Like I am a notch on his tournament bed post. Sincerely, madival
"The big problem I have is that I played the guy who said this and remember him doing stuff like this when I played. I thought he was nice. I feel dirty now that I know he was just kissing my ass. I genuilly thought he liked my paint job..."
That's kind of the point I was trying to make, but to no avail. Its his way or the highway, so I'll choose the latter. Just let it go. I've deleted my bookmarks & like Warseer I see little incentive to ever return.
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